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Text -- John 8:25 (NET)

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Context
8:25 So they said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus replied, “What I have told you from the beginning.
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Names, People and Places, Dictionary Themes and Topics

Dictionary Themes and Topics: Temple | Jesus, The Christ | BEGIN | more
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Word/Phrase Notes
Robertson , Vincent , Wesley , JFB , Clarke , Calvin , TSK

Word/Phrase Notes
Barnes , Poole , Lightfoot , Haydock , Gill

Verse Notes / Footnotes
NET Notes , Geneva Bible

Verse Range Notes
TSK Synopsis , Combined Bible , MHCC , Matthew Henry , Barclay , Constable , College , McGarvey , Lapide

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Commentary -- Word/Phrase Notes (per phrase)

Robertson: Joh 8:25 - -- Who art thou? ( Su tis ei ). Proleptic use of su before tis , "Thou, who art thou?"Cf. Joh 1:19. He had virtually claimed to be the Messiah and on ...

Who art thou? ( Su tis ei ).

Proleptic use of su before tis , "Thou, who art thou?"Cf. Joh 1:19. He had virtually claimed to be the Messiah and on a par with God as in Joh 5:15. They wish to pin him down and to charge him with blasphemy.

Robertson: Joh 8:25 - -- Even that which I have also spoken unto you from the beginning ( tēn archēn hoti kai lalō humin ). A difficult sentence. It is not clear whethe...

Even that which I have also spoken unto you from the beginning ( tēn archēn hoti kai lalō humin ).

A difficult sentence. It is not clear whether it is an affirmation or a question. The Latin and Syriac versions treat it as affirmative. Westcott and Hort follow Meyer and take it as interrogative. The Greek fathers take it as an exclamation. It seems clear that the adverbial accusative tēn archēn cannot mean "from the beginning"like ap' archēs (Joh 15:27) or ex archēs (Joh 16:4). The lxx has tēn archēn for "at the beginning"or "at the first"(Gen 43:20). There are examples in Greek, chiefly negative, where tēn archēn means "at all,""essentially,""primarily."Vincent and Bernard so take it here, "Primarily what I am telling you."Jesus avoids the term Messiah with its political connotations. He stands by his high claims already made.

Vincent: Joh 8:25 - -- Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning ( τὴν ἀρχὴν ὅ τι καὶ λαλῶ ὑμῖν ) A very difficult p...

Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning ( τὴν ἀρχὴν ὅ τι καὶ λαλῶ ὑμῖν )

A very difficult passage, on which the commentators are almost hopelessly divided. There are two main classes of interpretations, according to one of which it is to be read interrogatively , and according to the other, affirmatively . The two principal representatives of the former class are Meyer, who renders " Do you ask that which all along (τὴν ἀρχὴν ) I am even saying to you?" and Westcott, " How is it that I even speak to you at all (τὴν ἀρχὴν )" ? So also Milligan and Moulton. This latter rendering requires the change of ὅ τι , the relative, that which , into the conjunction ὅτι , that .

The second class of interpreters, who construe the passage affirmatively , vary in their explanations of τὴν ἄρχην , which they render severally, altogether , essentially , first of all , in the beginning . There is also a third class, who take τὴν ἄρχην as a noun, and explain according to Rev 21:6, " I am the beginning , that which I am even saying unto you ." This view is represented mostly by the older commentators, Augustine, Bede, Lampe, and later by Wordsworth.

I adopt the view of Alford, who renders essentially , explaining by generally , or traced up to its principle (ἀρχὴ ). Shading off from this are Godet, absolutely; Winer, throughout; Thayer, wholly or precisely . I render, I am essentially that which I even speak to you . If we accept the explanation of I am , in Joh 8:24, as a declaration of Jesus' absolute divine being, that thought prepares the way for this interpretation of His answer to the question, Who art thou? His words are the revelation of Himself. " He appeals to His own testimony as the adequate expression of His nature. They have only to fathom the series of statements He has made concerning Himself, and they will find therein a complete analysis of His mission and essence" (Godet).

Wesley: Joh 8:25 - -- The same which I say to you, as it were in one discourse, with one even tenor from the time I first spake to you.

The same which I say to you, as it were in one discourse, with one even tenor from the time I first spake to you.

JFB: Joh 8:21-25 - -- (See on Joh 7:33).

(See on Joh 7:33).

JFB: Joh 8:25 - -- Hoping thus to extort an explicit answer; but they are disappointed.

Hoping thus to extort an explicit answer; but they are disappointed.

Clarke: Joh 8:25 - -- Who art thou? - This marks the indignation of the Pharisees - as if they had said: Who art thou that takest upon thee to deal out threatenings in th...

Who art thou? - This marks the indignation of the Pharisees - as if they had said: Who art thou that takest upon thee to deal out threatenings in this manner against us

Clarke: Joh 8:25 - -- Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning - Rather, Just what I have already told you, i.e. that I am the light o...

Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning - Rather, Just what I have already told you, i.e. that I am the light of the world - the Christ - the Savior of mankind. There are a variety of renderings for this verse among the critics. Some consider την αρχην (which makes the principal difficulty in the text) as the answer of our Lord. Who art thou? I am την αρχην, the chief, the supreme; and have therefore a right to judge, and to execute judgment. But if our Lord had intended to convey this meaning, he would doubtless have said ἡ Αρχη, or ὁ Αρχων, and not την αρχην, in the accusative case. This mode of reading appears to have been followed by the Vulgate, some copies of the Itala, and some of the fathers; but this construction can never be reconciled to the Greek text. Others take την αρχην as an adverb, in which sense it is repeatedly used by the best Greek writers; and, connecting the 25th with the 26th verse, they translate thus: I have indeed, as I Assure ye, many things to say of you, and to condemn in you. See Wakefield. Raphelius takes up the words nearly in the same way, and defends his mode of exposition with much critical learning; and to him I refer the reader. I have given it that meaning which I thought the most simple and plain, should any departure from our own version be thought necessary: both convey a good and consistent sense.

Calvin: Joh 8:25 - -- 25.From the beginning They who translate the words τὴν ἀρχὴν, as if they had been in the nominative case, I am the beginning, 227 and as ...

25.From the beginning They who translate the words τὴν ἀρχὴν, as if they had been in the nominative case, I am the beginning, 227 and as if Christ were here asserting his eternal Divinity, are greatly mistaken. There is no ambiguity of this sort in the Greek, but still the Greek commentators also differ as to the meaning. All of them, indeed, are agreed that a preposition must be understood; but many give to it the force of an adverb, as if Christ had said, “This ought first (τὴν ἀρχὴν) to be observed.” Some too — among whom is Chrysostom — render it continuously thus: The beginning, who also speak to you, I have many things to say and judge of you This meaning has been put into verse by Nonnus. 228 But a different reading is more generally adopted, and appears to be the true one. I interpret τὴν ἀρχὴν, from the beginning; so that the meaning, in my opinion, is this: “I did not arise suddenly, but as I was formerly promised, so now I come forth publicly.” He adds,

Because I also speak to you; by which he means that he testifies plainly enough who he is, provided that they had ears. This word, ὄτι because, is not employed merely to assign a reason, as if Christ intended to prove that he was from the beginning, because he now speaks; but he asserts that there is such an agreement between his doctrine and the eternity which he has spoken of, that it ought to be reckoned an undoubted confirmation of it. It may be explained thus: “ According to the beginning, that is, what I have formerly said, I now, as it were, confirm anew;” or, “And truly what I now also speak, is in accordance with the conditions made in all ages, so as to be a strong confirmation of it.”

In short, this reply consists of two clauses; for, under the word beginning, he includes an uninterrupted succession of ages, during which God had made a covenant with their fathers. When he says that he also speaks, he joins his doctrine with the ancient predictions, and shows that it depends on them. Hence it follows that the Jews had no other reason for their ignorance, than that they did not believe either the Prophets or the Gospel; for it is the same Christ that is exhibited in all of them. They pretended to be disciples of the Prophets, and to look to the eternal covenant of God; but still they rejected Christ, who had been promised from the beginning, and presented himself before them.

TSK: Joh 8:25 - -- Who : Joh 1:19, Joh 1:22, Joh 10:24, Joh 19:9; Luk 22:67 Even : Joh 8:12, Joh 5:17-29

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Commentary -- Word/Phrase Notes (per Verse)

Barnes: Joh 8:25 - -- Who art thou? - As Jesus did not expressly say in the previous verse that he was the Messiah, they professed still not to understand him. In gr...

Who art thou? - As Jesus did not expressly say in the previous verse that he was the Messiah, they professed still not to understand him. In great contempt, therefore, they asked him who he was. As if they had said, "Who art thou that undertakest to threaten us in this manner!"When we remember that they regarded him as a mere pretender from Galilee; that he was poor and without friends; and that he was persecuted by those in authority, we cannot but admire the patience with which all this was borne, and the coolness with which he answered them.

Even the same ... - What he had professed to them was that he was the light of the world; that he was the bread that came down from heaven; that he was sent by his Father, etc. From all this they might easily gather that he claimed to be the Messiah. He assumed no new character; he made no change in his professions; he is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and as he had once professed to be the light of the world, so, in the face of contempt, persecution, and death, he adhered to the profession.

The beginning - From his first discourse with them, or uniformly.

Poole: Joh 8:25 - -- What good Christian will not learn to contemn the slights and reproaches of sinful men, when he readeth of a company of miscreants thus using their ...

What good Christian will not learn to contemn the slights and reproaches of sinful men, when he readeth of a company of miscreants thus using their Lord and Master, saying to him,

Who art thou? It is no wonder if the world, which knew him not, doth not know us. The latter part of the verse, as it lies in the Greek, is exceedingly difficult; word for word it is, The beginning, because also I speak unto you. Some think that our Saviour calleth himself

The beginning Others think the noun is in this place put for an adverb: of which we have many instances in Scripture, though none as to this noun. But I shall leave those who desire satisfaction as to what is said by critics about this verse, to what Mr. Pool hath collected in his Synopsis Criticorum, and only consider it as our interpreters understood it; in which form it seemeth to be a mere slighting of them, as much as if he had said, I have often enough, even from the beginning, told you who I am; I can say no more to you upon that head than I have said. I am the same, and no other, than I at first told you I was.

Lightfoot: Joh 8:25 - -- Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.   [The same tha...

Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.   

[The same that I said unto you from the beginning.] I. Amongst the several renderings of this place, this seems the most proper; The same that I said unto you from the beginning. So Gen 43:18; The money returned.....at the first time ": and Joh 8:20, We came indeed down at the first time to buy food.   

The words thus rendered may refer to that full and open profession which our Saviour made of himself before the Sanhedrim, that he was 'the Son of God,' or 'the Messiah,' John_5: "Do you ask me who I am? I am the same that I told you from the beginning; when I was summoned to answer before the Sanhedrim."   

II. However, I cannot but a little call to mind the common forms of speech used so much in the Jewish schools, the beginning and the end. Where, by the beginning they meant any thing that was chiefly and primarily to be offered and taken notice of: by the end what was secondary, or of less weight.   

The question is, whether it were lawful for the priests to sleep in their holy vestments. The end or the secondary question was, whether it was lawful for them to sleep in them. But the beginning; or the thing chiefly and primarily to be discussed, was, whether it was lawful for them to have them on at all but in divine service. Hence the Gemarists, The tradition is, that they must not sleep in them, if you will explain the end [or secondary question]: but let them put them off and fold them up, and lay them under their heads [when they sleep]: this, 'the beginning' [or chief matter in hand] determines; that is, that it is not lawful for the priest so much as to wear his holy garments but when he is in holy service.   

"It is a tradition of the Rabbins. If one, in walking near any city, see lights in it, if the greatest number in that city be Cuthites, let him not bless them; if they be most Israelites, let him bless it. They teach 'the beginning,' when they say, Most Cuthites. They teach 'the end,' when they say, Most Israelites." For the chief and principal scruple was, whether they should pronounce a blessing upon those lights when there might be most Cuthites in the city that lighted them up: the lesser scruple was, whether he should bless them if there were most Israelites in that city.   

"There is a dispute upon that precept, Lev 17:13; If any one kill a beast or bird upon a holy day, the Shammean school saith, Let him dig with an instrument and cover the blood. The school of Hillel saith, Let him not kill at all, if he have not dust ready by him to cover the blood."   

The end; or the secondary question, is about covering the blood if a beast should be killed. The beginning; or the principal question, is about killing a beast or a fowl at all upon a holy day, merely for the labour of scraping up dust, if there be none at hand.   

There are numberless instances of this kind: and if our Saviour had any respect to this form or mode of speaking, we may suppose what he said was to this purpose: "You ask who I am? The beginning. That is the chief thing to be inquired into, which I now say, viz. That I am the light of the world, the Messiah, the Son of God, etc. But what works I do, what doctrines I teach, and by what authority, this is an inquiry of the second place, in comparison to that first and chief question, who I am."

Haydock: Joh 8:25 - -- Who art thou? Jesus said to them: The beginning, [3] who also speak to you. This text and the construction of it is obscure, both in the Latin and...

Who art thou? Jesus said to them: The beginning, [3] who also speak to you. This text and the construction of it is obscure, both in the Latin and in the Greek. St. Augustine and some of the Latin Fathers, expound it in this manner: I am the beginning of all things, who now being made man, speak to you. But this does not seem the construction, if we consult the Greek text; (where the beginning is not in the nominative, but in the accusative case) and therefore St. Augustine having considered more attentively the Greek, thinks that something must be understood, as believe me to be the beginning: he looks upon this to be the sense and the construction, as being connected with what was said two verses before; to wit, if you believe not that I am he, the true Messias, you shall die in you sins. "That they might," says St. Augustine (tract. 38, num. 11, p. 560) "know what they were to believe," he made them this answer, as if he had said: believe me to be the beginning, the cause, the author of all things, who am now become man, and speak to you. Other later interpreters are of opinion that the beginning is here a Grecism, and signifies that same as at first, or from the beginning. The sense therefore and construction may be, I am, what I said and told you at first, and from the beginning; that is, I am your Messias, the true Son of God, sent into the world, &c. (Witham) ---

The Pharisees, indignant at the liberty with which Jesus spoke to them, demand of him in a rage, Who art thou, to speak to us in this imperious manner, to say that we shall die in our sins? Jesus answered them, that he was the Beginning, Author, Creator, and Ruler of all things. This is the more orthodox and more becoming interpretation. Or, I am, in the first place, what I have already told you; viz. (ver. 12.) I am the light of the world; he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life. Or, it may mean, I am what I have always from the beginning told you. I am the Son of God, the Messias, &c. (Calmet)

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[BIBLIOGRAPHY]

Principium qui et loquor vobis. St. Augustine reads, quia loquor vobis, as we find in some Greek manuscripts and in St. Cyril, p. 511. In the common copies wer read, Greek: ten archen, oti kai lalo umin. And as Greek: ten archen is in the accusative case, so we may take principium; and to be taken adverbially, to signify the same as primum, a principio, imprimis. Maldonatus is of the same opinion, as well as many others, and brings examples to shew that Greek: ten archen (i.e. Greek: kata ten archen ) is often taken for primum: and so the sense will be, I am what I told you from the beginning, i.e. the Messias, and this I now tell you again. We may also take notice, that the Greek construction is hard to be accounted for, Greek: ten archen oti, not Greek: os, qui, nor Greek: e, to agree with Greek: arche.

Gill: Joh 8:25 - -- Then said they unto him, who art thou?.... That talks at this rate, and threatens with death, in case of unbelief; this they said with an haughty air,...

Then said they unto him, who art thou?.... That talks at this rate, and threatens with death, in case of unbelief; this they said with an haughty air, and in a scornful manner:

and Jesus saith unto them, even the same that I said unto you from the beginning; meaning, either of this discourse, as that he was the light of the world, and which he continued to assert; or of his being had before the sanhedrim, when he affirmed that God was his Father, and by many strong arguments proved his divine sonship; or of his ministry, when by miracles, as well as doctrines, he made it to appear that he was he that was to come, the true Messiah; or who spake from the beginning to Moses, saying, I am that I am, hath sent thee, and to the church, and Jewish fathers in the wilderness; and who is that word that was from the beginning with God; and who is called the beginning, the first cause of all things, and of the creation of God; and some think this is intended here.

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Commentary -- Verse Notes / Footnotes

NET Notes: Joh 8:25 Grk “Jesus said to them.”

Geneva Bible: Joh 8:25 ( 9 ) Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even ( f ) [the same] that I said unto you from the beginning. ( 9 ) He will ...

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Commentary -- Verse Range Notes

TSK Synopsis: Joh 8:1-59 - --1 Christ delivers the woman taken in adultery.12 He declares himself the light of the world, and justifies his doctrine;31 promises freedom to those w...

Combined Bible: Joh 8:12-32 - --of the Gospel of John    CHAPTER 29    Christ, the Light of the World    John 8:12-32    The following ...

MHCC: Joh 8:21-29 - --Those that live in unbelief, are for ever undone, if they die in unbelief. The Jews belonged to this present evil world, but Jesus was of a heavenly a...

Matthew Henry: Joh 8:21-30 - -- Christ here gives fair warning to the careless unbelieving Jews to consider what would be the consequence of their infidelity, that they might preve...

Barclay: Joh 8:21-30 - --This is one of the passages of argument and debate so characteristic of the Fourth Gospel and so difficult to elucidate and to understand. In it vari...

Barclay: Joh 8:21-30 - --Jesus goes on to draw a series of contrasts. His opponents belong to earth, he is from heaven; they are of the world; he is not of the world. John...

Barclay: Joh 8:21-30 - --There is no verse in all the New Testament more difficult to translate than Joh 8:25. No one can really be sure what the Greek means. It could mean:...

Constable: Joh 1:19--13:1 - --II. Jesus' public ministry 1:19--12:50 The first part of the body of John's Gospel records Jesus' public ministr...

Constable: Joh 7:10--11:1 - --H. Jesus' third visit to Jerusalem 7:10-10:42 This section of the text describes Jesus' teaching in Jeru...

Constable: Joh 8:12-59 - --5. The light of the world discourse 8:12-59 Following Jesus' claim to be the water of life (7:37...

Constable: Joh 8:21-30 - --Jesus' claims about His origin 8:21-30 Jesus began to contrast Himself and His critics.310 8:21 Evidently what follows continues Jesus' teaching in th...

College: Joh 8:1-59 - --JOHN 8 Textual Parenthesis: The Woman Taken in Adultery (7:53-8:11) 53 Then each went to his own home. 1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 A...

McGarvey: Joh 8:12-59 - -- LXXX. MESSIANIC CLAIMS MET BY ATTEMPT TO STONE JESUS. (Jerusalem. October, A. D. 29.) dJOHN VIII. 12-59.    d12 Again therefore Jesus...

Lapide: Joh 8:1-37 - --1-59 CHAPTER 8 Ver. 1.— But Jesus went unto the Mount of Olives. On the last day of the Feast Jesus had taught in the temple, and confuted the Ph...

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Introduction / Outline

Robertson: John (Book Introduction) THE Fourth Gospel By Way of Introduction Greatest of Books The test of time has given the palm to the Fourth Gospel over all the books of the wor...

JFB: John (Book Introduction) THE author of the Fourth Gospel was the younger of the two sons of Zebedee, a fisherman on the Sea of Galilee, who resided at Bethsaida, where were bo...

JFB: John (Outline) THE WORD MADE FLESH. (Joh 1:1-14) A SAYING OF THE BAPTIST CONFIRMATORY OF THIS. (Joh 1:15) SAME SUBJECT CONTINUED. (Joh 1:16-18) THE BAPTIST'S TESTIM...

TSK: John (Book Introduction) John, who, according to the unanimous testimony of the ancient fathers and ecclesiastical writers, was the author of this Gospel, was the son of Zebed...

TSK: John 8 (Chapter Introduction) Overview Joh 8:1, Christ delivers the woman taken in adultery; Joh 8:12, He declares himself the light of the world, and justifies his doctrine; J...

Poole: John 8 (Chapter Introduction) CHAPTER 8

MHCC: John (Book Introduction) The apostle and evangelist, John, seems to have been the youngest of the twelve. He was especially favoured with our Lord's regard and confidence, so ...

MHCC: John 8 (Chapter Introduction) (Joh 8:1-11) The Pharisees and the adulteress. (v. 12-59) Christ's discourse with the Pharisees.

Matthew Henry: John (Book Introduction) An Exposition, with Practical Observations, of The Gospel According to St. John It is not material to enquire when and where this gospel was written; ...

Matthew Henry: John 8 (Chapter Introduction) In this chapter we have, I. Christ's evading the snare which the Jews laid for him, in bringing to him a woman taken in adultery (Joh 8:1-11). II...

Barclay: John (Book Introduction) INTRODUCTION TO THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO SAINT JOHN The Gospel Of The EagleEye For many Christian people the Gospel according to St. John is the mos...

Barclay: John 8 (Chapter Introduction) The Light Men Failed To Recognize (Joh_8:12-20) The Light Men Failed To Recognize (Joh_8:12-20 Continued) The Light Men Failed To Recognize (Joh_...

Constable: John (Book Introduction) Introduction Writer The writer of this Gospel did not identify himself as such in the ...

Constable: John (Outline) Outline I. Prologue 1:1-18 A. The preincarnate Word 1:1-5 B. The witness...

Constable: John John Bibliography Allen, Ronald B. "Affirming Right-of-Way on Ancient Paths." Bibliotheca Sacra 153:609 (Januar...

Haydock: John (Book Introduction) THE HOLY GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, ACCORDING TO ST. JOHN. INTRODUCTION St. John, the evangelist, a native of Bathsaida, in Galilee, was the son ...

Gill: John (Book Introduction) INTRODUCTION TO JOHN The author of this Gospel is John, the son of Zebedee and Salome, the brother of James the greater; he outlived the rest of th...

College: John (Book Introduction) PREFACE INTRODUCTION Even the casual reader of the New Testament will notice that the first three accounts of Jesus' life are generally similar in t...

College: John (Outline) OUTLINE A good outline is more than half the battle in one's understanding and remembering the contents of any book. There is more than one way to bre...

Lapide: John (Book Introduction) NOTICE TO THE READER. Gospel of John Intro ——o—— AS it has been found impossible to compress the Translation of the Commentary upon S. John...

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